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helo frens
this is ur friendly reminder to use a word other than 'mana' for your fantasy magic systems
'mana' is a concept that has been misappropriated from polynesian cultures and it is not a spiritual force in that way !!
this is ur friendly reminder to use a word other than 'mana' for your fantasy magic systems
'mana' is a concept that has been misappropriated from polynesian cultures and it is not a spiritual force in that way !!
it's difficult to translate, and the nuances differ across poly cultures but in mÄoritanga, 'mana' is like... an innate spiritual quality for leadership, or the ability to draw respect or admiration. charisma in a sense, but not quite
not everyone in a leadership position has mana just by default though
a person who generally speaks confidently, is respected by their community for their actions, and who Listens as well as Is Listened To can be described as having strong mana
a person who generally speaks confidently, is respected by their community for their actions, and who Listens as well as Is Listened To can be described as having strong mana
caveat: living in aotearoa means familiarity with some aspects of mÄoritanga, but i have likely missed some nuance since i am not myself mÄori or pasifika
poly folks will def be able to speak more knowledgeably than me on this! but this was just a wee note for the uninitiated :>
poly folks will def be able to speak more knowledgeably than me on this! but this was just a wee note for the uninitiated :>
this thread was absolutely definitely partly brought to you by d*sney making qi out to be this Woo Mysterious Exotic Oriental Magic Force That Only The Chosen Few Can Wield
bls qi is just life force literally everything and everyone has it https://twitter.com/artemyiss/status/1303847569739530240
bls qi is just life force literally everything and everyone has it https://twitter.com/artemyiss/status/1303847569739530240
the use of mana in fantasy goes back further than just fantasy/ttrpg tbh
like how yoga/buddhism gets treated like an exotic spiritual alt lifestyle thing now, mana was treated the same way
by the time it hit rpg no one really cared to know where it came from ig ÂŻ\\_(ă)_/ÂŻ https://twitter.com/drawingfly/status/1303853256968482817
like how yoga/buddhism gets treated like an exotic spiritual alt lifestyle thing now, mana was treated the same way
by the time it hit rpg no one really cared to know where it came from ig ÂŻ\\_(ă)_/ÂŻ https://twitter.com/drawingfly/status/1303853256968482817
there is an article on the history floating around the internet somewhere but i'm not going to link it bc the final takeaway was basically 'white people fantasy made mana OURS and we CARED FOR IT and austronesians should be GRATEFUL FOR IT' so nope nope nope
this is looking like a not-uncommon viewpoint but i'd contend that "divine food" manna doesn't match fantasy-mana's general definition as 'innate magical potential', which is.... Still Not Accurate to what mana is, but is at least closer https://twitter.com/ChromaticCodex/status/1303867967365697537
a general timeline of events
â˘polynesians are out here just vibin
â˘robert henry codrington, a missionary (surprise) heads a melanesian mission
â˘oh no he's also an anthropologist
â˘codrington publishes THE MELANESIANS: STUDIES IN THEIR ANTHROPOLOGY AND FOLKLORE in 1891
â˘polynesians are out here just vibin
â˘robert henry codrington, a missionary (surprise) heads a melanesian mission
â˘oh no he's also an anthropologist
â˘codrington publishes THE MELANESIANS: STUDIES IN THEIR ANTHROPOLOGY AND FOLKLORE in 1891
â˘europe is thus introduced to the concept of mana
â˘philosopher dudes like carl jung (surprise again), joseph campbell and mircea eliade dissect and otherwise wax philosophical on mana in further work, praising it as some kind of worldly universal force
â˘philosopher dudes like carl jung (surprise again), joseph campbell and mircea eliade dissect and otherwise wax philosophical on mana in further work, praising it as some kind of worldly universal force
â˘peter worsley, a british social anthropologist (oh no oh no) publishes THE TRUMPET SHALL SOUND: A STUDY OF "CARGO" CULTS (???) in 1957
â˘sff author larry niven reads this book in college, thus learning about mana, and is Inspiredâ˘
â˘sff author larry niven reads this book in college, thus learning about mana, and is Inspiredâ˘
â˘niven writes mana into THE MAGIC GOES AWAY (1969) as a depletable and non-renewable magical resource
â˘see where this is going
â˘other books in the same universe follow w the same mechanic
â˘by this point we can probably safely say sff readers will have no idea of the origins
â˘see where this is going
â˘other books in the same universe follow w the same mechanic
â˘by this point we can probably safely say sff readers will have no idea of the origins
â˘around the same time, hippies and other new age folk are eating up the idea of mana as a wow cosmic force for their alt spiritual lifestyles
â˘meanwhile other philosopher dudes are already pish-poshing this in their own essays
â˘ps did you know that poi are also mÄori in origin
â˘meanwhile other philosopher dudes are already pish-poshing this in their own essays
â˘ps did you know that poi are also mÄori in origin
â˘mana at this point is 'well known' but is super exoticised
â˘between white phil/anth dudes pooh-poohing it as primitive nonsense, hippies going ooh ahh spiritual wisdom, and sff using it as for narrative mechanics, westerners can't see its roots for the weeds
â˘between white phil/anth dudes pooh-poohing it as primitive nonsense, hippies going ooh ahh spiritual wisdom, and sff using it as for narrative mechanics, westerners can't see its roots for the weeds
â˘magic the gathering releases their first core set in 1993
â˘you know, where mana/mp is an exhaustible but renewable magical resource
â˘included is a card called nevinyrral's disk, which removes enchantments on the field
â˘you know, where mana/mp is an exhaustible but renewable magical resource
â˘included is a card called nevinyrral's disk, which removes enchantments on the field
â˘WAIT it wasn't THE MAGIC GOES AWAY (1969) it was NOT LONG BEFORE THE END (1969)
â˘SORRY I GOT IT WRONG
â˘anyway in THE MAGIC GOES AWAY (1976) there is a metal disc called the warlock's wheel which drains mana from his surroundings
â˘hey ps guess what nevinyrral is backwards for
â˘SORRY I GOT IT WRONG
â˘anyway in THE MAGIC GOES AWAY (1976) there is a metal disc called the warlock's wheel which drains mana from his surroundings
â˘hey ps guess what nevinyrral is backwards for
â˘the card/character is a homage to niven and his work, from whom the creators of m:tg were inspired in the creating of their own system of mana
â˘so now mana is just kind of A Funky Magical Fantasy Thing I Guess which people keep on running with w/o knowing where it came from
â˘so now mana is just kind of A Funky Magical Fantasy Thing I Guess which people keep on running with w/o knowing where it came from
NEW MANA: TRANSFORMATIONS OF A CLASSIC CONCEPT IN PACIFIC LANGUAGES AND CULTURES contains an extensive essay on this history
it is... cowritten by the same guy whose essay i didn't want to link, so take it with a grain of salt. but the history is there
http://press-files.anu.edu.au/downloads/press/p343683/pdf/ch12.pdf
it is... cowritten by the same guy whose essay i didn't want to link, so take it with a grain of salt. but the history is there
http://press-files.anu.edu.au/downloads/press/p343683/pdf/ch12.pdf
"i would like more proof"
the essay above written by a white dude should do it for you if my not-a-white-dude thread doesn't
"but it could still be from the biblical manna!!"
i mean i just provided reason and academic evidence arguing otherwise but you do you ig ??
the essay above written by a white dude should do it for you if my not-a-white-dude thread doesn't
"but it could still be from the biblical manna!!"
i mean i just provided reason and academic evidence arguing otherwise but you do you ig ??
"words change meaning all the time!!"
yah but like if i say my name is molian and you start calling me mo or molly or maureen bc "it's just easier don't be offended words change meaning" that's totally different from me going "hi my name is molian but you can call me molly" innit
yah but like if i say my name is molian and you start calling me mo or molly or maureen bc "it's just easier don't be offended words change meaning" that's totally different from me going "hi my name is molian but you can call me molly" innit
also saying "well this extremely personal cultural artefact was stolen ages ago but i didn't personally do it so i guess i'll just keep using it as a hammer" is a dick move
anyway mana is so commonplace as a fantasy trope now. don't u wanna make sth cool and original maybe
anyway mana is so commonplace as a fantasy trope now. don't u wanna make sth cool and original maybe
ofc, languages borrow from other languages all the time. but there's a diff between natural evolution and misappropriation/bastardisation â the former still retains easily traceable etymological roots, while the latter is "niven invented mana, i think?" https://twitter.com/bliss_rage/status/1303883380900196352
thank you for sharing your mÄtauranga!! 
https://twitter.com/lesmars/status/1303894539539640320
https://twitter.com/lesmars/status/1303894539539640320
